June 2-3 test & tune + race

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2012 season.

June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Fri May 18, 2012 11:46 am

There are probly a few of you who are wondering what we're doing with the Helena event on June 2-3. And some of you may not know we were planning anything special. So here is the plan...

Saturday - Test and Tune:
We are going to limit this to 10 drivers to make it productive for those who really want to test. Because of the limited number of entries we'll be charging $40. It is not a race day. In the morning we're going to set up a skid pad and a slalom as completely separate elements. Drivers will be able to rotate and make use of either to take tire temps, alter damper settings, sway bars, whatever. Timing will be up if we can make it work (probly only on the slalom) displaying times but not recording results. This is also a good opportunity for drivers who want a little extra practice to learn how to get the most out of their car on these types of elements. In the afternoon, or once everyone gets tired of tuning, we will set up a simple course and drivers can get feedback and assistance from other drivers (this may be particularly useful to newer members). No times will be recorded, but should be shown on the timing system display for your own information.

Sunday - Race Day:
Everyone come and have a regular event
. Helena is awesome if you don't normally make the drive.

Let me know if you want me to hold a spot for you. Region 52 (that's us) members will get priority and we may open it up to other regions if space allows.

1 - me
2 - Dave K
3 - Mel
4 - Michael H.
5 - James Jong
6 -
7 - Mary Jones
8 -Nick Jones
9 - Ron
10- James Rose
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Alex » Fri May 18, 2012 1:16 pm

Put me down for the test and tune.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Fri May 18, 2012 2:29 pm

That went fast! Please do still let me know if you're interested. If I hear somebody can't make it I'll put additional people on the alternate list first come first serve. Also, if I have a better idea of the numbers we can fill we might do this again.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby rkaiser » Fri May 18, 2012 10:28 pm

I can be there to help out or whatever - you can give my place to someone else since I don't do any tuning :)
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Sat May 19, 2012 8:06 pm

Sounds good Russ.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Sun May 20, 2012 4:11 pm

3 spots open.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Mon May 21, 2012 6:07 pm

are 10 entrants necessary for the $40 fee?...
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby nickjones07GT » Wed May 23, 2012 5:51 am

Alright, I decided to do the test and tune instead of the event on sunday. I think it would be more beneficial to tune that nut behind the wheel then to just go race again. so sign me up if there is room.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Wed May 23, 2012 6:34 am

Mel Kuipers wrote:are 10 entrants necessary for the $40 fee?...

We wanted to charge a bit more because of the limited entry, but the club should still be fine financially if not all 10 sign up.

nickjones07GT wrote:Alright, I decided to do the test and tune instead of the event on sunday. I think it would be more beneficial to tune that nut behind the wheel then to just go race again. so sign me up if there is room.

I think you'll get a lot out of it. There is still room so you're on the list.

2 more spots.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby wiseriver » Wed May 23, 2012 11:32 am

Kent, go ahead and put me down for Saturday...... But, if there is someone who really, really, really, wants to do the Saturday test and tune..... I'll give up my spot to them.

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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Wed May 23, 2012 11:44 am

wiseriver wrote:Kent, go ahead and put me down for Saturday...... But, if there is someone who really, really, really, wants to do the Saturday test and tune..... I'll give up my spot to them.

Ron

Noted.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Wed May 23, 2012 11:45 am

I am getting excited about the t&t...and hope to do some ride alongs to learn lines...of course anyone is invited to ride with me to learn where not to be on a line... :)
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed May 23, 2012 3:19 pm

nickjones07GT wrote:Alright, I decided to do the test and tune instead of the event on sunday. I think it would be more beneficial to tune that nut behind the wheel then to just go race again. so sign me up if there is room.


Cool that you'll do the T&T. Too bad you can't make race day. I've definitely found that if I can learn something on one day and practice it the next I have a better chance of having it 'stick'.

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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Wed May 23, 2012 5:44 pm

Ok, I will make it a full 10, sign me up. I can't let those pesky miatas gain another tenth on me. I do have some new tires to tune in anyway.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed May 23, 2012 5:55 pm

mdlfCRXs wrote:Ok, I will make it a full 10, sign me up. I can't let those pesky miatas gain another tenth on me. I do have some new tires to tune in anyway.



Cool.

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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby wiseriver » Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 pm

mdlfCRXs wrote:Ok, I will make it a full 10, sign me up. I can't let those pesky miatas gain another tenth on me. I do have some new tires to tune in anyway.


Hummm.... seems to me I recall you putting those new sticky tires on up in Lewistown, but didn't see any drastic lowering of your lap times. In fact, there was talk of putting an illuminated flashing arrow on the back of your car..... so as to make passing easier for everyone.... :lol: Guess that Honda is due for a supercharger !!!

Can't wait for Helena



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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Thu May 24, 2012 9:45 am

wiseriver wrote:
mdlfCRXs wrote:Ok, I will make it a full 10, sign me up. I can't let those pesky miatas gain another tenth on me. I do have some new tires to tune in anyway.


Hummm.... seems to me I recall you putting those new sticky tires on up in Lewistown, but didn't see any drastic lowering of your lap times. In fact, there was talk of putting an illuminated flashing arrow on the back of your car..... so as to make passing easier for everyone.... :lol: Guess that Honda is due for a supercharger !!!

Can't wait for Helena.

Yeah Ron, you're right. I am sure these stickies are a big waste of money, I wouldn't worry about them if I were you. The problem at Lewistown is the right pedal only goes down so far, then the floorboard gets in the way. I rank Lewistown as NOT a momentum course, more of a horsepower course, the golf cart was the only thing there with less power than me, and I heard that was even questioned. But I suppose I will stick with these tires for now and waste some time at the test and tune too. What my car needs is another car with more squirrels, er ponies,...

In shopping around I found 2 of these:
http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumi ... cope/posts

but I am afraid driving something like that will look like the flashback/flashforward scene in 2001 Space Odyssey.


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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Thu May 24, 2012 9:58 am

mdlfCRXs wrote:What my car needs is another car with more squirrels, er ponies,...

In shopping around I found 2 of these:
http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumi ... cope/posts

but I am afraid driving something like that will look like the flashback/flashforward scene in 2001 Space Odyssey.

I would love to have an Evo, I totally would have bought one if they had been in my price range when I was car shopping last summer. They're ugly and don't have very nice interiors, but they haul butt.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby findurpath » Thu May 24, 2012 11:54 am

The Evo 8 would be the only one I'd ever consider getting, IF I were to venture over to the dark side. I can't stand the newer ones, they ARE butt ugly.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Thu May 24, 2012 12:10 pm

findurpath wrote:The Evo 8 would be the only one I'd ever consider getting, IF I were to venture over to the dark side. I can't stand the newer ones, they ARE butt ugly.

Almost as ugly as those damn Subarus.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Thu May 24, 2012 12:33 pm

kjohnson wrote:
findurpath wrote:The Evo 8 would be the only one I'd ever consider getting, IF I were to venture over to the dark side. I can't stand the newer ones, they ARE butt ugly.

Almost as ugly as those damn Subarus.



They are so 2011. You cant go anywhere in the Bozone without seeing at least a dozen. The EVO is ugly in a cool way. Knowing whats underneath would make it all tolerable.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby JoeE » Thu May 24, 2012 1:57 pm

findurpath wrote:The Evo 8 would be the only one I'd ever consider getting, IF I were to venture over to the dark side. I can't stand the newer ones, they ARE butt ugly.

x2 I think the new ones are heavier too, and I think I read somewhere that they don't have the same bomb proof engine that the previous ones have.

BTW, like Russ I plan to be at this event on Saturday to direct traffic, give bad advice, and make your car heavier by riding along.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Thu May 24, 2012 2:21 pm

Very cool Joe, maybe you and Russ and explain the "slip angle=traction" thing.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby DaveMk1 » Thu May 24, 2012 2:38 pm

mdlfCRXs wrote:Very cool Joe, maybe you and Russ and explain the "slip angle=traction" thing.


It can't be explained. It's like a Chinese riddle or a snake that eats it's tail..........or some sh!t like that.


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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Thu May 24, 2012 2:45 pm

I've got plenty of slip angle, but not much traction.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby rkaiser » Thu May 24, 2012 2:48 pm

traction...traction...slip....spin

there ya go
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Thu May 24, 2012 4:14 pm

Thanks Russ, I've got that part down pretty well. I was hoping for something that would IMPROVE my performance.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby rkaiser » Thu May 24, 2012 4:28 pm

Lol, stop at the second traction and don't go further :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle

seems to relate to parts of your contact patch moving in a different direction than your traveling. Stiffer side walls and larger tread blocks will have an affect of lessening the slip angle since your tire will be moving less around the contact patch. However, I assume tire hardness/softness will effect the amount the contact patch stays put.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby DaveMk1 » Thu May 24, 2012 6:32 pm

mdlfCRXs wrote:Thanks Russ, I've got that part down pretty well. I was hoping for something that would IMPROVE my performance.


I have a pretty good understanding of it and could sit and draw and splain it but typing not so much.

How about having a group dinner Saturday after the T&T?


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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Alex » Sun May 27, 2012 9:21 am

Unfortunately I think I have at this point delayed too long in finding a solution to my wheel problem, so I am unlikely to have wheels OR good tires by this weekend. With that in mind, consider my spot at the test and tune open if anyone wants it. I may show up for the event on crappy street tires, but doing the test and tune on those would be pretty pointless I think.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun May 27, 2012 7:40 pm

haven't seen any mention of the cones and equiptment we are using next weekend...are we borrowing the Missoula trailer and contents? ...I am taking the motorhome, and could drag it around, but would prefer it done with a smaller tow vehicle...I also want to know what is up with the line they used on the straight at Indy...it looked to be in the middle to the inside of the track, coming off the entrance high, and going high for the next corner...didn't look like the fastest line for a straight, and all I can figure out is they wanted to do the straight away from the wall....splain it to me if that is not right...
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby mdlfCRXs » Sun May 27, 2012 8:34 pm

I will have my pickup there and can move things around. I won't be over until sat am but could come early If needed.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 29, 2012 10:35 am

Yes, we are going to be using Missoula's trailer and cones but we still need to haul our timing equipment there and back. Also, depending on the course we run we may need a handful of extra cones as well. I can probly haul either cones or timing stuff, but not both. Just let me know if anyone wants to volunteer for hauling duty.

I'm not planning on being there until Saturday morning. I can tow the trailer around no problem after I get my car unloaded.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 29, 2012 10:36 am

Alex wrote:Unfortunately I think I have at this point delayed too long in finding a solution to my wheel problem, so I am unlikely to have wheels OR good tires by this weekend. With that in mind, consider my spot at the test and tune open if anyone wants it. I may show up for the event on crappy street tires, but doing the test and tune on those would be pretty pointless I think.

Bummer.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue May 29, 2012 11:40 am

Alex...driving fast with intention, anytime is worth it---IMHO---Kent, I could take the timing stuff--what needs to go, and where is it?....I have Dave's tires so don't have a lot of room for cones...
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 29, 2012 11:52 am

The timing stuff is in the van, except the computer which I can pick up from Alex sometime this week. Do you have a key? I'm getting with Joe to get some keys that actually work in the doors and the ignition but we can work something out to get you into the van. We need the lights (milk crates), the timing box/misc stuff that's in a cardboard box, wiring, and the display. I guess we'll need the safety boxes too. Let me know if you won't have room for it all.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue May 29, 2012 12:09 pm

I have a vice grips in my truck, and have found it opens the side door of the van just fine...I will marinate my schedule and let you know when I will be able to pick that stuff up...and btw, the back doors of the van have never been locked when I was there....will you be taking the generator?
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Right, the generator, we'll need that too. I have room for that if you do not.
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue May 29, 2012 2:04 pm

I will take the computer stuff, but let you take the generator...I may be full up without that, cause I know Judi's policy for the motorhome is "no gas engines in the box"
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Re: June 2-3 test & tune + race

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 pm

Sounds good.
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